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My partner was called on the phone to go into the office. She had earlier that day questioned her rota?
Asked by STEVE J
cont..... for Xmas day as they were aware she only had her children until about 4pm before they went to her ex-husbands for a couple of days but had put her down to work until 8am - 2pm. She asked if she was in trouble and they said they just wanted her to come to the office asap. When she got there she was told she was having a disciplinary meeting about the way she spoke to one of the managers about her rota (in her upset state she did say she wouldn't do all those hours on the phone). She came out of the meeting with a final written warning for gross misconduct. There were no copies of notes given to her from any witnesses (the person who spoke to her about rota) and that person was actually in the meeting. The meeting was very brief and a couple of lines of noted were taken (she had no-one to accompany her as she wasn't told the reason for coming into the office originally) She was upset by the whole thing at the end of the meeting as she's never had any disciplinaries in her working life. They told her to sign what notes they took, which she did, but didn't realise why she was signing them until afterwards. After nearly 4 weeks of asking for the letter informing her of the decision of gross misconduct, including the reasons why and the notes taken (4 times of asking) they are still telling her they will do it when they have time. I know from dealing with disciplinaries in previous employment as a manager they haven't followed any disciplinary procedures (but they do think their staff are stupid) but need advice on what my partners next step should be. I've told her I will go through the appeal process with her but I'm unsure whether or not to wait until the letter arrives before getting her to send an appeal letter in, as I wouldn't want them to think "Oh dam, we've got someone who knows about correct procedures. Let's make sure the letter is worded correctly to cover ourselves" As none of her colleagues will accompany her to the appeal and there is no union representative at the company I would also like to know if I can be that person. I know I can't answer for my partner but if her company will agree to me being there will this go against her, if in the future a claim to a tribunal was made. The only reason I ask this is all of a sudden she has been asked to come in for a supervision interview which she has already had. Their reason being they've always done them every 3 months for all employees. Strangely enough staff, some who have been there for years, have, when she asked, only had one in all the time they have been there. (You can probably see where I'm going with this) Thank you for any advice you may be able to give me to pass on to my partner regarding the above. Kind regards Steve Staff were told a "Dummy" rota would be sent out the week before xmas so people could have a look at it and give the company a chance to make alterations. Staff were told those with children would be given fewer hours on xmas day than those without. Her hours on a Thursday are 2-3 max but they increased this to 6 for xmas day, When she first got the rota she told them about this and was told it was her responsibility to cover the hours otherwise she had to do them. Normally staff ask other members of staff personally to cover any hours if they are unable to do them due to other commitments (eg: picking kids up from school) Prior to the "dummy" rota coming out staff were told to let the office know as soon as they got their xmas rotas so they could organize the rotas so all appointments were met. (she is a home carer by the way and loves the job, just not the company) As to sending in an appeal before she has received the letter. I believe what they put in writing could be their error I'm not at the level where I can rate everyone's answers but they all would be high. It's going to be hard to choose the best answer by the end of the answering period but I hope you all accept my thanks for all your advice and I will keep reading with interest.
Asked by STEVE J
cont..... for Xmas day as they were aware she only had her children until about 4pm before they went to her ex-husbands for a couple of days but had put her down to work until 8am - 2pm. She asked if she was in trouble and they said they just wanted her to come to the office asap. When she got there she was told she was having a disciplinary meeting about the way she spoke to one of the managers about her rota (in her upset state she did say she wouldn't do all those hours on the phone). She came out of the meeting with a final written warning for gross misconduct. There were no copies of notes given to her from any witnesses (the person who spoke to her about rota) and that person was actually in the meeting. The meeting was very brief and a couple of lines of noted were taken (she had no-one to accompany her as she wasn't told the reason for coming into the office originally) She was upset by the whole thing at the end of the meeting as she's never had any disciplinaries in her working life. They told her to sign what notes they took, which she did, but didn't realise why she was signing them until afterwards. After nearly 4 weeks of asking for the letter informing her of the decision of gross misconduct, including the reasons why and the notes taken (4 times of asking) they are still telling her they will do it when they have time. I know from dealing with disciplinaries in previous employment as a manager they haven't followed any disciplinary procedures (but they do think their staff are stupid) but need advice on what my partners next step should be. I've told her I will go through the appeal process with her but I'm unsure whether or not to wait until the letter arrives before getting her to send an appeal letter in, as I wouldn't want them to think "Oh dam, we've got someone who knows about correct procedures. Let's make sure the letter is worded correctly to cover ourselves" As none of her colleagues will accompany her to the appeal and there is no union representative at the company I would also like to know if I can be that person. I know I can't answer for my partner but if her company will agree to me being there will this go against her, if in the future a claim to a tribunal was made. The only reason I ask this is all of a sudden she has been asked to come in for a supervision interview which she has already had. Their reason being they've always done them every 3 months for all employees. Strangely enough staff, some who have been there for years, have, when she asked, only had one in all the time they have been there. (You can probably see where I'm going with this) Thank you for any advice you may be able to give me to pass on to my partner regarding the above. Kind regards Steve Staff were told a "Dummy" rota would be sent out the week before xmas so people could have a look at it and give the company a chance to make alterations. Staff were told those with children would be given fewer hours on xmas day than those without. Her hours on a Thursday are 2-3 max but they increased this to 6 for xmas day, When she first got the rota she told them about this and was told it was her responsibility to cover the hours otherwise she had to do them. Normally staff ask other members of staff personally to cover any hours if they are unable to do them due to other commitments (eg: picking kids up from school) Prior to the "dummy" rota coming out staff were told to let the office know as soon as they got their xmas rotas so they could organize the rotas so all appointments were met. (she is a home carer by the way and loves the job, just not the company) As to sending in an appeal before she has received the letter. I believe what they put in writing could be their error I'm not at the level where I can rate everyone's answers but they all would be high. It's going to be hard to choose the best answer by the end of the answering period but I hope you all accept my thanks for all your advice and I will keep reading with interest.
A:
Best Answer:
I will assume you are from the UK? Your partner has just had a warning, the only one she has had? If not and she has had 2 previous warnings, then this is indeed a 'final'.o I am retired now but the last I remember you were allowed 3 of these , number 3 was the final. Next step could be fired. You have nothing to do with the company, your partner has no union rep' I have never heard of an appeal against a company warning. And for sure not from an outsider. I can understand your partner having a little fit over the phone over this rota thing, she possibly had another when called to the office? Bit late now but at that meeting she should have expressed regret about her outburst. My advise ? It's not really worth much , but here goes:- If your partner wants to keep her present job she will have to be squeaky clean from here on. Thats one alternative, another is find another job before she is fired, problem with that is not many jobs about now are there? Then it's a matter of references., The third is continue where she is make 100% sure she breaks no rules , and get your heads together to prepare a really good case for an appeal if she is dismissed. I was a trade union rep' at one time, I was entitled to attend any disciplin action along with the person being hauled across the coals. In the case of your partner I would have argued that she was severly provoked into any verbal abuse, she may have voiced over the phone, she now relalises it was out of order and apologises etc, but you have no union! Unions in UK are not much use now in the UK, but if you can put a case together for wrongful dismssal they will provide legal advise and representation. I suggest your partner joins up. Now! Tells them the story to date then keeps a very low profile.
I will assume you are from the UK? Your partner has just had a warning, the only one she has had? If not and she has had 2 previous warnings, then this is indeed a 'final'.o I am retired now but the last I remember you were allowed 3 of these , number 3 was the final. Next step could be fired. You have nothing to do with the company, your partner has no union rep' I have never heard of an appeal against a company warning. And for sure not from an outsider. I can understand your partner having a little fit over the phone over this rota thing, she possibly had another when called to the office? Bit late now but at that meeting she should have expressed regret about her outburst. My advise ? It's not really worth much , but here goes:- If your partner wants to keep her present job she will have to be squeaky clean from here on. Thats one alternative, another is find another job before she is fired, problem with that is not many jobs about now are there? Then it's a matter of references., The third is continue where she is make 100% sure she breaks no rules , and get your heads together to prepare a really good case for an appeal if she is dismissed. I was a trade union rep' at one time, I was entitled to attend any disciplin action along with the person being hauled across the coals. In the case of your partner I would have argued that she was severly provoked into any verbal abuse, she may have voiced over the phone, she now relalises it was out of order and apologises etc, but you have no union! Unions in UK are not much use now in the UK, but if you can put a case together for wrongful dismssal they will provide legal advise and representation. I suggest your partner joins up. Now! Tells them the story to date then keeps a very low profile.
A:
as the diseplinary was handled wrong it can be made not to count, there must be 24 hours notice given, and you must be told what is happening and why, there also needs to be some sort of letter from each member of satff involved reporting what happened and when, i think your wife should phone hr, and take it up with them, and you should most certainly appeal as soon as possible, it may be they are holding the letter till she cant appeal against it
Answered by lnknprkbabe84
Answered by lnknprkbabe84
A:
I'm sorry I am not clear on exactly why she was told it was gross misconduct - what exactly was said by her to her manager about the hours? Do you mean she was rota'd FROM 8am - 2pm? What effect did this have on seeing the kids? Did she actually work the shift, or just not turn up? When did they give her notice of those hours? What job does she do?
I am trying to establish whether they are trying to effectively perfomance manage her out of her job, and if they aren't following proper disciplinary rules where that puts her legally.
Answered by Han
Answered by Han
A:
It doesn't sound as though they have correctly followed procedure. Check out the ACAS web site for guidance and speak to the CAB. In my job I frequently accompany people in similar circumstances and I'm sure the employee is allowed to have a 'friend' with them. Lots of luck
Answered by Happy
Answered by Happy
A:
Employment law continually changes and all for the employee. If I was her I would speak to acas or a union if she is a member because this company is bang out of order, they havent followed the correct disciplinary procedure at all. I do feel at this stage she should take the legal advice and prosecute this company firstly because they have done her wrong (you cant treat employees like that) and secondly to make them wake up to the fact that they shouldnt treat future staff like that. Sadly there are still companies that follow their own procedure and get away with it cos they feel that their staff dared'nt take it further or are too stupid to do so. It would also be interesting to read her terms and conditions and contract regarding gross misconduct. At the end of the day they have left themselves wide open and I hope your partner takes them to the cleaners.
Answered by Suet
Answered by Suet
A:
Get yourself onto the ACAS website and download a copy of the grievance and disciplinary procedures. Do not write a letter of appeal as you would be recognising that you have had a disciplinary and accepted the outcome.
Instead write a letter in response, and state that you did not recognise the meeting as a disciplinary and list (after reading the download) all the reasons why.
Ring acas on advice as to the timescales of correspondance (regarding the appeal if the company still insist it was one) and start to keep a record of events, with copies if possible.
All the information you require is on the acas website and from posters on here try to be one step ahead of the employers they sound like a right bunch of idiots.
Answered by gail
Answered by gail
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